Microsoft demos Vista on a MacBook Pro
No, this isn’t some marketing goof up, when the Windows OS is superimposed over a piece of Apple hardware with the Apple logo removed. Microsoft chose to install Windows Vista, as well as Office 2007 on a piece of Mac hardware, a MacBook Pro to be precise, to demonstrate the power of their upcoming OS and application suite.
The presentation of windows vista and office 2007 for a group of bloggers at Microsoft HQ in Diegem, Belgium. June 2006. [via Pieter Baert]
When you need the best hardware you can rely on… How can you get people to switch to Mac faster? Let MS prove that you can run Windows on a Mac.
Its pretty obvious that MS would make their newest OS Mac compatible (It insures that MS makes money off of adamant mac users). They are going to need all the revenue they can get after their five year dry-spell.
Frankly, I think the Mac is the best Windows PC I have ever used.
My MBP isn’t that great of a windows PC. The only time I’ve ever played with windows on it is when i was sitting on the deck with no access to an external keyboard or mouse. Makes using windows much harder.
That being said, WoW is on mac and i’ve not had a need to use windows beyond installing it and playing with it :P
Once the Mac is fully Windows compatable, meaning Windows can take advantage of all the good little Mac goodies, people will turn heads. People always hear about Macs, but are scared to leave Windows. With Windows Vista running on the new Macs, I hope to convince people to spend the extra money and go for it. Right now, MBP are top of the line, but think how long it will take for them to be low-end. Go ahead, indulge yourself, it will last a hell of a lot longer than that Non-Vista-Ready Dell you just bought a week ago!
this maybe unrealted ..sorta,,see with windows running on mac,,, annoncing that will help sell em, but mac are a minority and in that sense,,ppl dont know wat they are, my friends were talking and the touche commerical was mentioned.they laughed , they like the commercial, but in reference to wat it was they just saind some computer commercial..they had no idea it was for a mac or there was an os called OS X.
so i guess wat im goin with this is that i think apple needs to assert themselves as to what they are and how they are different.
sry if i rambled and it was kidna of unlrelated, its just that this happened recently and i wanted to tell some ppl who would understand
Noraa – Macbook Pro has the best hardware? LOL
http://www.appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro
Here’s a short list of the defects :)
1.1.1 Swollen Battery
1.1.2 High Pitched Squeal
1.1.3 Ticking/Clicking from underneath the delete key
1.1.4 Electric Shock from MBP while plugged in for charging
1.1.5 Heat
1.1.6 Improperly applied thermal grease
1.1.6.1 Before and After
1.1.7 Mooing Fans
1.1.8 Melting MagSafe Adapter
1.1.9 Swelled Battery
1.1.10 Hissing LCD
1.1.11 Uneven LCD
1.1.12 Defective Batteries, Battery Recalls, etc
1.1.13 Battery Damage caused by heat
1.1.14 Blown Speakers
1.1.15 Random Shutdown
1.1.16 Poor Performance ATI video card
1.1.17 Poor Build Quality
1.1.18 Kernel Panics due to Wireless Driver
1.1.19 Wifi signal drops
1.1.20 Headphone Jack microswitch failure
just a couple of notes because while i love bashing anything elitist and non-egalitarian ie mac/apple there needs to be some setting the record straight. one is that most mac lovers assume (when you assume u make an ASS out of U and ME) every msos user is on a dell which is simply not true. my box’s hardware has beaten every mac out there and i’m not even using a dual core (amd all the way). the second is that well if apple can’t even utilize their proprietary hardware and software efficiently then might as well let ms. to further illustrate this my friend was just last week showing me benchmarks he came out with on macs running msxpos and every time hands down ms had better benchmarks over mac by half. and we’re not talkin’ opening browser apps either we’re talking beefy, burly, memory hungry programs like indesign,photoshop, and illustrator just to name a few. so go take a look at the mac benchmarks running xp and i think you’ll have a major paradigmatic shift like me and realize that the real reason apple is scared of ms is because they’re afraid ms will build a better mousetrap.
Wouldn’t it just have meant that this presenter owned a Mac and presented with a Mac? This doesn’t really mean anything at all…
That best Macbook is also a very powerfull win32 gaming station :).. but really i think that macbook is only a that guy choice not a microsoft or apples :)
It’s kind of hard to understand when you have such poor control over the English language, ;)
Hey Pieter, thanks for being diplomatic about the usage of your photo. I’m sure a lot of us are happy to see the photo and I hope this website does add “© Pieter Baert” out of respect.
Anyway, it’s pretty astounding where things are at this point with Apple and Microsoft. This is great news for all computer users. Still us mac users of exclusivity to Mac OSX and obviously windows OS and Linux too.
It’s worth getting a mac, you can run it all, at once, on one machine. Just be prepared to stock up on loads of RAM.
FYI for all of the above commenters.
Its not that Windows can run on Mac now, its Mac can run Windows with the intel chips now. So its Apple marketing, and Microsoft is just trying to jump on the bandwagon.
And vista is a little ridiculous. 1GB RAM minimum? Hell, I would rather play some game with those resources.
“Its pretty obvious that MS would make their newest OS Mac compatible.”
errr just to make it clear Microsoft have done absolutely NOTHING towards Windows running, even ending a number of the Microsoft crossover programs (ie.[sic.] Internet Explorer, MSN). Apple released Boot Camp, enabling mac’s to dual boot, while Parallels released their virtualisation client allowing OSX users to run Windows within OSX.
Also a common misnomer is that OSX users are desperate for Windows. OSX does everything Windows does, and better. The only reason to use Windows is some companies are too short-sighted to develop their software for Mac as well as Windows, meaning the majority of professionals are obliged to use Windows-only software in some form or other.
Yeah, I’m majorly mac-biased, but there’s a good reason for that.
I’m guessing that one of the Belgian Microsoft employees went out and got himself a Macbook after Bootcamp was released… maybe Microsoft even supported this gesture since they’re trying to get Vista to work on an EFI based system – and the Macbook is the only computer that uses EFI and has an x86 processor.
Anyway – I’m using my MacBook Pro right now and it’s the best computer I’ve ever had. I’ve got the best of both worlds.
re: some guy.
If you are a mac guy and people around don’t know what mac, apple or os x is, then you aren’t a mac guy.
Since my sister, brother, and I first delved into the world of Apple in early 2002, we have influenced a load of people around us, always plugging the products. we don’t do it for any money, but just because we believe in the mac hardware and software – its different and better than anything else out there.
lern tto tyep ddued .!
Hmmm Well it looks like Rodney King’s request that “can’t we all just get along” is finally coming true.
with a new macbook, you load the codeweaver’s app in order to run Windows apps and not have to buy Vista.
http://www.codeweavers.com/
Yeah, you can put grandpa in a Porsche but he’ll still be blind in one eye and smell funny.
Vista does look an awful lot like Mac OS X anyway. Might as well complete the picture.
khayman:
{…my box’s hardware has beaten every mac out there and i’m not even using a dual core… }
According to a pretty reliable, and I would say, unbaised source, The MBP seems to hold up quite well to the competition:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6484737.html?tag=cnetfd.sd
[…the second is that well if apple can’t even utilize their proprietary hardware and software efficiently then might as well let ms….}
There is nothing more proprietary about Apple software than there is Microsoft software…. A common misconception. Anyone can write code and programs for a Mac. Shit, Macs even come with Developer Tools that you can install right from the beginning. Thats why Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, plus thousands of others have programs that run on a Mac.
{…to further illustrate this my friend was just last week showing me benchmarks he came out with on macs running msxpos and every time hands down ms had better benchmarks over mac by half. and we’re not talkin’ opening browser apps either we’re talking beefy, burly, memory hungry programs like indesign,photoshop, and illustrator…}
You failed to realize the fundamental flaw in your testing. As of today, there exists no ‘Universal Binary’ (Intel native) version of Adobe’s Creative Suite for Mac. The benchmarks you would do today on a Mac would represent the Intel Mac’s abilty to run the CS by emulating a PowerPC chip. So yes, they will be much slower, maybe even slower than a G4 (which the intel core duos are up to 5x faster). But when companies like Adobe release their “beefy, burly, memory hungry programs” as an Intel NATIVE version, the Intel Macs hold up firmly/beat the pants off the competition.
[…realize that the real reason apple is scared of ms is because they’re afraid ms will build a better mousetrap.}
Who said Apple is scared? Apple is setting the standard for everything, from minimum specs, to software, to the OS and the features included in itself. “Redmond, start your copiers!”
Thanks for reading,
Clay
khayman said-
“the second is that well if apple can’t even utilize their proprietary hardware and software efficiently then might as well let ms. to further illustrate this my friend was just last week showing me benchmarks he came out with on macs running msxpos and every time hands down ms had better benchmarks over mac by half. and we’re not talkin’ opening browser apps either we’re talking beefy, burly, memory hungry programs like indesign,photoshop, and illustrator just to name a few.”
Of course all those “beefy, burly, memory hungry programs” ran faster on xp on an intel mac than on osx on an intel mac. those apps are running in rosetta, because adobe hasn’t updated the mac versions yet to support the intel chips. the benchmarks mean nothing if the programs are running through emulation.
All Microsoft did for Vista was look at OS X and say “hmmm, How can me make a not-so obvious clone of this with the same Eye Candy and features?
@ khayman
You do make me laugh. I’ve never seen a single core PC beat even a G5 at photoshop tests, either you are using some strange supercomputer or you have your head up your ass!
To khayman,
There’s a reason that all of the Adobe suite (photoshop, etc.) runs much faster in windows. Its running natively in windows, where its compiled for intel processesors, while its running in Rosetta under emulation in OS X, where it is compiled for G4,G5 processors but running on an intel. That the software is even comparable when running under processor emulation speaks very highly of the Apple software and hardware.
Justin
Noraa – Macbook Pro has the best hardware? LOL
Funny its the best piece of hardware to run windows on…
Bootcamp is more than just an assurance for potential switchers. It’s great for developers with clients on the Windows side of the fence.
It takes the bite out of dual booting by making it a stupid simple thing to do. Just dragging a slider to set aside a partition for that other OS. That’s the kind of thing I fell in love with on my first computer. Not a mac, but an Apple nevertheless (man, I’m old). I remember friends pointing at the mouse: “what the bleep is that thing there, come on, turn on the light, I dare you.” :-)
I’ll definitely install Vista. I kind of like the glass look they “borrowed” (or bought, who knows?) from Sun, complete with the Sun “show your back side and be proud” effects. Pretty slick. Not as useful as you’d think, but hey, who cares?
And of course, Ubuntu. Too much ado about that one to ignore…
Pretty cool, not having to build a frankenputer for testing and goofing around.
To Justin: Thats good that you know all these defects because you just decribed a first generation MacBook. Everyone knows that you run a risk of getting defects and bugs when you buy a brand new first edition computer or program. Remember Windows ME? That was actually considered a beta version of XP. Which is why XP came out so fast after that. Companies will let their customers test the product and then come out with a better version a couple of months later. The new Macs that just came out don’t have a majority of the bugs, in fact, apple is now changing the type of plastic it uses for the MacBooks to deal with the discoloration.
To khayman: Tha hardware used on a Mac is made to accomodate OSX. OSX is made to take advantage of that hardware. XP just happens to run good on the Mac hardware. If you put XP on a regular PC you will see the benchmarks go down fast.
1.1.1 Swollen Battery – Isolated case
1.1.2 High Pitched Squeal – Not noticable in an office environment
1.1.3 Ticking/Clicking from underneath the delete key – Very isolated case
1.1.4 Electric Shock from MBP while plugged in for charging – User static electricity.
1.1.5 Heat – It’s warm just like every other laptop out there.
1.1.6 Improperly applied thermal grease – Ok Apple screwed up on this one
1.1.6.1 Before and After – And they screwed up again
1.1.7 Mooing Fans – Moo. Isolated case
1.1.8 Melting MagSafe Adapter – Isolated case
1.1.9 Swelled Battery – Isolated case, just like the exploding Dell.
1.1.10 Hissing LCD – Not noticeable in an office environment
1.1.11 Uneven LCD – Very isolated case
1.1.12 Defective Batteries, Battery Recalls, etc – That was on the iBook, and people who needed them replaced got them replaced for free.
1.1.13 Battery Damage caused by heat – I think it’s just a defective battery that can be replaced under Applecare anyway.
1.1.14 Blown Speakers – Isolated case
1.1.15 Random Shutdown – My old PC randomly shut down quite a bit
1.1.16 Poor Performance ATI video card – It’s an underclocked Mobility Radeon card, unfortunately.
1.1.17 Poor Build Quality – Don’t think so.
1.1.18 Kernel Panics due to Wireless Driver – What?
1.1.19 Wifi signal drops – Unfortunately due to the sleek aluminum material
1.1.20 Headphone Jack microswitch failure – Isolated case
You didn’t mention the earlier iBooks Logic Board problems, early iMac G5’s capacitor problems if you were looking for non isolated problems. I’ve had absolutely no problems on my iBook (late 2004 model) and iMac Intel Core Duo… and I know a good bunch of people with MacBook Pros who have no problems whatsoever with theirs.
The reason that adobe benchmarks and many other benchmarks are slower than the windows xp versions stem from the fact that the mac apps are not yet converted to work seemlessly with the intel chips however the xp versions are made to work natively with the intel chip.
Following up on some of those points:
1.1.2 High Pitched Squeal – Not noticable in an office environment
Apple has a firmware update that resolves this issue. Several people have tracked down the problem to the Core Duo processor, not anything to do with Apple at all.
1.1.9 Swelled Battery – Isolated case, just like the exploding Dell.
He listed this one twice.
1.1.10 Hissing LCD – Not noticeable in an office environment
This was also listed twice (hissing). It was not the display’s inverter that was the problem.
1.1.11 Uneven LCD – Very isolated case
When this happened with my first-generation PowerBook G4 Aluminum, Apple replaced my entire LCD at no charge.
1.1.12 Defective Batteries, Battery Recalls, etc – That was on the iBook, and people who needed them replaced got them replaced for free.
Okay, you’re starting to get very repetitive.
1.1.16 Poor Performance ATI video card – It’s an underclocked Mobility Radeon card, unfortunately.
It’s a very good performing video card. However, for heat issues, Apple chose to underclock the GDP. You can bring the clock speed of the GDP back up to spec using ATIccerator II (free), but your laptop will run hotter.
1.1.19 Wifi signal drops – Unfortunately due to the sleek aluminum material
I haven’t heard of this one at all. Many websites are reporting the new Mac Book Pro’s WiFi signal sensitivity is up with the iBook. That is a significant improvement over the aluminum PowerBooks.
-Aaron-
Glad to know that If I buy a MBP I can run not only XP, but even Vista.
I love seeing hypocritical elitists like khayman talk of being against elitism. Oh the irony.
Well it gives us many choices, I would love to see Apple have support for any X86 system out of the box.
Thanks, Dan, for sharing this news with us. Interesting read–glad to know that Apple’s hardware is becoming diverse. I’m a PC user, but I can appreciate these latest technological advances on Apple’s side. I must say, though, that a lot of PC fanboys and a lot of Mac fanboys can get very hostile. It seems that both sides twist facts. I’ve studied psychology and sociology, and I can’t think of a single conversion (be it religious or OS/hardware related) that has occured because of the badgering and bad-mouthing that goes on here. It’s true that both sides are “defending” themselves, but such hostility will most definitely close the ears of the opposing side.
Vista isn’t an OSX clone. Anyone who thinks so is simply a fanboy and needs to get over it.
If the most recent version of windows hadn’t been “slick” graphically, MS would have been berated for it. If it’s attractive, they get berated for that as well. Same with features. It’s all a bunch of horse crap.
Vista runs extremely well and is extremely attractive and intuitive.
Newrican said:
Remember Windows ME? That was actually considered a beta version of XP. Which is why XP came out so fast after that.
Windows Me was a completely different code base than XP. XP uses the NT kernel, and Me used the Win 9x kernel. Perhaps you were thinking of Windows 2000?
Re: MommasArse
No, Vista isn’t a clone. A clone is something that does what the original does equally well. Vista copies some of the features that has been in OS X for a long time, but it doesn’t (according to the journalistic reports I’ve read) do it as well as OS X.
And if _any_ of the reports I’ve read is true, then Vista does not run extremely well. Check out an OS X computer (and bring your Vista insecurity blanket if you wish) for a few months, and you’ll see why Apple chose to run on Unix.
Please, MommasArse, if you truly believe Vista runs “extremely well”, then you, sir, are the fanboy here. There are actually at least two desktop operating systems out there that run even better, and if you’re serious you already know that.
I have to agree, though, that you have a point about the slick graphics. But the features came with OS X first. And to me it doesn’t look as the copying company has made the copied features as good as the originals.
It looks like (and this is what I’ve been trying to tell a lot of my friends some weeks ago) that microsoft has os software, and apple has os software. Companies like Dell have hardware, and a company named Apple has superior hardware. Now, I know this is disputable, but just last month I was reading an article in PCWorld (lol) that tested xp on the macbook, and xp on PC hardware. The benchmark numbers were lower on the macbook…but wait, look a little closer on the fine print, and you’ll see that the macbook had half the RAM and half the processor. Taking these into account, the mac performed better.
Now, I love macs, but all of you, mac and pc users have to be careful what you mean when you say, PCs are faster, or Macs run windows faster. I’m not familiar with the market, but I’m sure some PC guy can come up with a much more souped-up PC either that cost him 3,000 or he built himself, and say “hey! it runs faster”. He would be right, but sadly, it (keyword) performs poorly, more so than a mac.
I hope that made sense, anyways my theory (and I don’t think it’s far fetched) is that Microsoft will embrace Mac (the hardware not the software) if the users don’t first. The pc hardware (e.g. Dell) will simply die, and mac will have monopoly over the hardware market in a matter of years. People will realize that Vista is Microsoft’s pathetic attempt to look like mac and thus score a few points, and they’ll eventually use the os X on their macbooks or whatever, and they’ll see how much cooler it is. Microsoft will curl up, wither and die, and the whole cycle starts again except that the new monopoly-holder (mac) will actually have decent software/hardware. Yay!
The fact that Microsoft has abandoned it’s own hardware to advertise their top-of-the line software shows that Microsoft has already given up. Which is, not bad for Microsoft actually, just bad for Dell and its buddies.
And this cannot be merely just because the dude in the picture happened to have a mac on him that day, don’t you people realize that big companies like Microsoft have interests in what kind of image they give when they’re courting the public? Or are you living in your own little bubbled-up world? (unless this presenter guy just got fired indicating that he made this decision on his own, which can happen in a company that is so busy tried to keep its head above the flood of incoming virus that it takes them so freaking long to realease a new operating system that is completely unoriginal).
@ Lovin the Macbook,, quote
The pc hardware (e.g. Dell) will simply die, and mac will have monopoly over the hardware market in a matter of years.
I love my black Macbook too, and still enjoy me pbook G4, but guy, this is wishful thinking on your part if you believe dell would curle up and die. As much as some people hate wintel, you have to admit that the reason personal computers are in every home today is because MS gave the people what they wanted, namely a gaming machine built in with every pc. Remember, Gil Amelio??? he’s the one that was so against gaming on the Macs. Most people want to run xp on a mac just so they can play their favourite games on a cool computer. I for one, am looking forward to the realease of WINE for Mac which would negate the need to isntall Win xp on my macbook.
A long time Mac user will hardly be going onto Windows simply because Apple have allowed it on their computers. One poster here seems to think M$ use proprietary software and hardware more efficiently than Apple does, er… hello! It’s this kind of ill-informed thinking that will have windows users also believing that Vista is new technology never before seen in any other operating system.
As for the few out of millions of Apple computers that have been sold a few Windows fanboys here have decided to mention some defective ones. I guess this has never happened in the world of pc’s?? How hypocritical that pc users keep labeling Mac users yet they are exactly what they label Mac users to be (ie: fanboys, snobs, etc).
So the choice is this… a bloated, virus prone, insecure operating system that even the company who owns it admit to not being to get operational as opposed to a reliable, easy to use, safer operating system and which is continually evolving (without delay)? Maybe MS should just point out the features and benefits of OS X and forget about trying to copy it.
I love Mac’s and always will…. My problem with Mac folks are that they feel they must convert everyone. I feel the same way about my mac that I do about my neighborhood, my type of car or my favorite hangouts….. I don’t want just every Dell, HP or Compaq user hanging around. If people are happy being miserable, I say… let them be.
Well, I’ve had my G5 iMac for a little over a year now with not 1 problem. It still runs as smooth as the day I bought it. As a web designer/programmer/musician macs can do what windows never could with me…allow me to do ALL of these right out of the box with ease. I recently bought a 2.16ghz macbook pro and haven’t had any of the problems people have been talking about. Honestly, I think for it being the first revision with A TOTALLY NEW PROCESSOR they didn’t do half bad. Also, apple makes it so you almost want your computer to break(besides the loss of data) because if it does, you’ll get a brand new one.
As for the bench marks, yeah the universal binary bit plays a huge part, but have you forgotten that these bench marking programs were coded in windows then ported to mac? Just that alone makes a mac look slower.
When it comes down to it, I never have to reboot my mac, my whole system has never frozen up, I’ve never had to download a stupid driver, never reformatted, and I’ve have yet felt the urge to bash my monitor in(can’t say the same for my old pc’s). DOS is old and crappy, UNIX is the future….sooner microsoft can realize, the sooner they can back in the game.
I have been a Mac owner since 1986 and have used various Microsoft OS’s in parallel as they became available (additionally) and when I had the time. At times I was forced to use whatever iteration of Windows was available. The think that made my decision to continue expressly buying Macintosh is that Apple provides systems, and insures that it’s developers cooperate. I’ve also noticed that they seem to come complete with state-of-the-art hardware already installed and they functtion without me either having to consult or hire an “expert.” Many of my windows friends need help just to contine to use their single use gaming computers. . . . You see, I wan’t to use my computer as any other appliance Because I need to function ehen I make money. I can ill afford to wait and install a new motherboard or graphics card or whatever., Good luck to Windows users out there. Keep the virus scanners and patchwork software for your gaming machines . I demand the reliability of Macintosh. Since the dual-boot solution has arrived on Mac why would I go through the torture of uncertainty. Ahem, Vista is how late?
I agree with Jesse, the 369 bucks for my APP was well worth it. I had 5 months left when my old iMac died, now I am using a new Intel Core Duo one with the RAM upgraded to what it was on the old one[Strangly, I DID sort of wish my iBook had been unfixable so I could have a new MBP also]. Not to mention the built-in iSight and Bluetooth and Airport Extreme[ is that WiFi on steroids?]. I have tried Parallels with Win98SE and will use BootCamp when I find a cheap XPSP2 disk [ or if Leopard will let me use XPSP1] to see how fast I can run Folding @ Home. I used VPC 6 on my old iMac so I could run the windows only bowling tournament bracket software for our local association when we host the State All-Stars. Other than that, I sheepishly admit that AOL 9.0 has features that I wish they would put in the Mac version 5, and that is the only other time I want to use Mr Softys OS. BTW, levant, I don’t have a supercomputer to figure out how late Vista really is. Have a Blessed Day [PC and Mac users alike], Mike
Wow, lovin’, could I have some of what you are smoking? I’ve been a Mac fan since ‘86, but it’s been awhile since I read anyone predicting M$oft
will curl up and die, and Dell et al., will curl up and WITHER and die.
>. Don’t you realize how stupid this is? M$oft is a Software only company, and Apple is a hardware company that sells machines that run their very own software.
I’ll take two aspirins now, and wish us a very good night.
1.1.1 Swollen Battery – I had this one. Replacement taken care by Applecare. found only on some MBP produced in the first 2 weeks.
1.1.9 Swelled Battery – See 1.1.1
1.1.12 Defective Batteries, Battery Recalls . see 1.1.1.
1.1.13 Battery Damage caused by heat – Nope. My new battery does not exhibit the same kind of problems my first one had…
1.1.15 Random Shutdown – Those are caused by defective battery and are the symptoms announcing a bulging battery (see 1.1.1.)
And just in case, we can add : failing trackpad. It is usually due to a battery swelling toward the inside and pressing against the trackpad.
Those 5 points are related to a batch of failling batteries among those sent with MBPs produced during the first 2 weeks after launch.
1.1.6 Improperly applied thermal grease – Increase temp by 5°C to 10°C on max load but reduce fan usage (thus noise). It isn’t proven it has a noticeable impact on a daily use. They screwed up but it is of nearly no consequence…
1.1.8 Melting MagSafe Adapter – It was later discovered it was the owner cat which pissed on the connector !
Other points about noise are mainly isoloated cases, taken in charge by Applecare (motherboard free replacement upon request).
Other points are VERY isolated cases more or less unheard of (Kernel Panics due to Wireless Driver, Headphone Jack microswitch failure : read about ONE ONCE) and/or design choice (underclocked ATI, aluminium case) which are absolutely not defects per se. Or we can add weight as a defect on laptops having plastic cases, or even integrated graphics as a big defect since it is worse than an underclocked X1600…
I would summarize the MBP real defects to :
1- a batch of failing batteries on SOME earlier models produced before march (45 posts on Apple own forums despite + 300 000 units sold). Standard exchange taken care by AppleCare.
2- a kind of whine or buzz produced on some motherboards on SOME earlier models. taken care by AppleCare. It is of very low intensity (you need a â€â€?veryâ€â€? quiet room to notice it) and it does bother people on an individual basis. I know 2 people who didn’t even notice it until I told them… As a matter of fact, they were switchers, if it is of any indication of the quality level Macheads are used to ask for…
Also, I have a MBP from february batch whose battery had to be changed : besides that (I got a free new battery from Apple) it has absolutely NO DEFECTS.
Usually with Apple products alleged defects, things are quickly blown out of proportion (remember the Cube molding lines which made Apple stock plunge ?) because of the brand peculiar “love or hate” awareness but Apple products keep being among the less defect prone of the industry nonetheles. And Applecare keep being among the best rated services… Using rumored defects without stats to back your view isn’t the best way to prove Apple products are piece of shit… The market would have proven that 10 years ago if Apple products were half as bad as Macbashers think they are.
OSX rocks. Linux rocks. And even Vista rocks. The fact that I can do it ALL on my MacBook Pro rocks.
I think the Microsoft Guy use the MacBook is because he want to run his presentation using keynote. Does everyone agree keynote presentation is more eyecatching then power point? Bottom line, that guy is smart or he maybe just another technical marketing engineer from Microsoft. So, he just use what think does the job best! – Again, this is just my personal opinion.
One thing that worries me is too many people going over too Mac.. i Love My mac i wouldnt use anything else, but do we realy all want tones of people to realise the brilliance of them… just think more viruses more hassle… id rather keep macs for people who have taken the time too realise there brilliance by them selvs insted of a huge fanbase moving to mac just because of windows ….
Dont take the fun of laughing at people struggling on a pc away from me : )
Oooooh look… hell has just frozen over…
what better way to get windows to work than on a mac? :)
“maybe even slower than a G4 (which the intel core duos are up to 5x faster).”
“up to” marketing is prolly the lamest shite ever. In most of Apples own programs (iLife) it’s not even close to twice as fast or even slower (Quicktime MPEG4 transcoding). The Core Duo gets its advantage mostly from the second core (see anandtech!), core-by-core the G4 holds up pretty well – pretty embarrassing considering the Core Duo is from 2006 and the G4 used before is from 2003 and has 1/4the the cache and FSB-Speed.
It gets even worse for the Macs that got stripped of a dedicated GPU and VRAM like the Macbook or Mac mini.. The supposedly “3x faster” mac mini Core Solo actually gets beaten by its predecessor in most native tasks!
I would say that’s false advertising calling this “5x faster” (Apple likes to leave out the “up to” part quite regularly!), but it seems the Mac-Community is too busy praising their new messiah from Santa Clara to actually notice that SPEC-results are nothing like reality…
“You can bring the clock speed of the GDP back up to spec using ATIccerator II (free), but your laptop will run hotter.”
What, is that even possible? Will we experience nuclear fusion at temperatures like this? 8)
“Everyone knows that you run a risk of getting defects and bugs when you buy a brand new first edition computer or program.”
If i lay down $2500 for a new Computer, i damn well expect it to be free of defects!
“Remember Windows ME? That was actually considered a beta version of XP. Which is why XP came out so fast after that. ”
Urm – no, not at all. XP is WinNT/2k-based, ME was the last incarnation of the dreaded dos-based Win9x-Architecture..
“Thanks, Dan, for sharing this news with us. Interesting read–glad to know that Apple’s hardware is becoming diverse.”
Oh, what cruel irony… The choice of CPUs for mainstream users was just reduced from 3 to 2, and some people are seriously talking about “hardware diversity”…
“Microsoft will curl up, wither and die, and the whole cycle starts again except that the new monopoly-holder (mac) will actually have decent software/hardware. Yay!”
You, sir, are very very very delusional. Neither M$ (nor Dell) will never ever ever “curl up, whither and die” (just how little do you actually know about the company?), and as you might know they’re fully vested with more money than Uncle Scrooge’s fortunes multiplied by Warren Buffett’s, so the chances of that happening are about 1000000000 gazillion to 1. And if you actually think “yay” of Apple being the new monopoly, you clearly have no understanding of the company, being a longtime mac-user i would never ever want to see an Apple beyond 20% market share…
“The fact that Microsoft has abandoned it’s own hardware to advertise their top-of-the line software shows that Microsoft has already given up.”
What “own hardware” are you talking about? If you replace “Microsoft” in that sentence with “Apple”, it would be a pretty accurate description of what’s happening right now though…
[...] Sources: The Register , Pieter Baert, UNEASYsilence Tags: apple, MacBook Pro, Microsoft, Office 2007, Pieter Baert, Vista [...]
Justin, your fancy list of problems with Mac makes you seem like you know what you’re talking about… only, you DON”T… sorry…
While those problems are real… they only affect less than 5% of those machines. That is MUCH LESS than the percentage of Windows-only machines which usually see returns as high as 30% or more!!!
You are making a mountain out of a molehill and basically misrepresenting the situation. Apple computers are FAR MORE reliable than your piece of crap Dell, Compaq, etc.
You sure looked smart for a minute there, though… huh?
I just don’t get it.
Why would anyone want to put windows on a mac??
That’s like buying a Brand New top of the line Porsche,
taking out the motor and puting in a 1990 Honda Civic engine in it.
Huh?
[...] Microsoft demos Vista and Office 2007 on a MacBook Pro instead of a generic PC at Microsoft HQ. [...]
I find it humorus that you guys are so excited that Windows can run on a Mac when all along, Windows has ran fine on a pc…
[...] “No, this isn â??t some marketing goof up, where Windows is superimposed over a pice of Apple hardware with te logo removed. Microsoft actully loaded Windows Vista on a piece of Mac hardware and presented with it.”read more | digg story [...]
Hey, I’m hoping someone can tell me since I’m contemplating the purchase of a macbook…
1. Is there an MS Office for mac (obviously one that would be compatible with ms office files created on a windows pc)?
2. What software do you need to actually run windows on a mac?
If someone could email me a response as I don’t regularly monitor this site I would appreciate it! My addie is routeruser77@aol.com
Thanks again!
That’s neat and all, but who cares… he’s a super hottie!!!!!!!!!! And, obviously a smart guy using a MacBook Pro.
Having worked on both macs and pcs for years, I can’t conclude anything other than that those benchmark tests they perform in labs, have nothing to do with how a computer performs after a few months of working with them.
macs become slower and slower the more you use them, and behave terribly when not enough memory is available. A pc with windows xp and just 256 mb of memory is WAY faster than a similarly equipped mac.
Also, the windows GUI has always been much more responsive than the mac OS UI. Just put the mouse speed on maximum on your mac os and see how slow it still is. Just click a button and feel how it always takes that extra millisecond to respond to your action.
Honestly, macs may look great, but just reboot your G3 with OS9 and wonder how you were ever able to work on that.
And why don’t macs have good graphics cards?
And for those people who think MS is just copying apple: get your facts straight: it was apple that stole the whole visual interface idea, from xerox – who invented it, but didn’t patent it.
Be carefull with Trusted Computing, Palladium, Chip Fritz and Windows Vista!!!
Don’t buy mac intel…just watch.
http://www.lafkon.net/tc/
hehe, lovely! can`t wait for my macbook!
Look i just think that pic is funny. i told my mac loving freinds and they laughed. ok i just switched to mac now i personaly like it better but i can see where everyone is coming from and it all makes scence to me. oh one more point i’d like to point out power-pc prossors are manufatured by…. IBM. i’m just saying. but again don’t take the fun of lughing at people runing windows. though you can’t use my mac crashed in school your teacher will look at you funny.
OSX on a PC built around AMD chips runs faster than anything apple make.
teknico
OSX on a PC built around AMD chips runs faster than anything apple make.
how do you know or deside that?
Macman,
teknico is most likely running a hacked OSx86 version of Mac OS X on a PC that uses an AMD chip.
He may be right…
But not for long — the new intel Chips have already proven to blow EVERYTHING out of the water. The only issue now is price… At least AMD knows it currently is out of the performance competition with Intel, so it is just cutting ALL prices to stay in the game.
I didnt know that macos could run on AMD based computer. I thought it was only on the x86, me….
(on what frequence is your amd? i just got a 1800+ lol)
Well, you can either buy an american car or a model from japan. You choose. Pay a lot to keep it running or pay a lot up front to avoid the maintenance fees.
Whatever the debate is, I really am enjoying the best of both worlds by installing Vista alongside my MacBookPro.
Bob Sante: I agree fully!
Clay, you took ‘em right out of my mouth. Love these Windoze guys (I used to be one of them) that know it all…
Nathaniel Rand: you mean that V.I.S.T.A. stands for Various Improvements Similar To Apple’s ??? :)
Justin: like Newrican said, defects are in all products, and a lot of those are for a very few number of MB(P)s. Someone I know bought a Dell, about the same price range, and it died within 30 minutes literally. I was present, I kid you not! And yes, look at Aaron’s analysis. Many reasons for problematic hardware…
Noor: M$ didn’t give the people what they wanted, M$ has to CONFORM to what people wanted, took’em 20+ years, and in most cases FORCED people to have what they gave’em (aka: use Word97, and all of a sudden all Word95 users were fscked. Guess who went out and bought Word97 the next day?). If you worked in a large company and you were already vested in a M$ solution, you’d know exactly of what I’m talking about.
Elite One: agreed. I’ve stopped giving tech-support to anyone not using a Mac and OSX, and frankly don’t care what they run. But I do love laughing when I see them re-installing every week. Due to them I’m finally convinced the world is full of self-abusing machochistic (sp?) imbeciles…
Brian: hahahaha, awesome comparison! I agree 100%. I would only NEED Windows if I wanted to play a certain game that wasn’t (already) ported on to OS X…
olleke bolleke: but Apple took it and made it BETTER, M$ is trying to copy it and make it better, and they fail everytime, which is great as far as I’m concerned! As for responsiveness, you ARE right, but some of the offsets are that you need to do a lot less clicking for managing of windows on OS X, it looks far far better (part of the reason why it’s sluggish), also the font situtation is FAR superior to Windows (fonts JUST WORK on a Mac, not just from a user perspective but also from a programmer perspective), and finally, since most of you dweebs out here have no clue because you are not programmers: it’s a JOY to program with Cocoa, Xcode and IB. The triumverate was ahead of its time back in the late 1980’s in the NeXTStep world, and still is today! (there are other offsets too, but I don’t want this to get too long) One more imporant thing you’re forgetting: as machines are getting faster, and graphics cards are getting faster, these milliseconds dwindle. They already have since you last tried OS X. Try it again. In fact, if you, or others here ever used NT 3.x and 4.x (as I have), then you’d know that before M$ moved the GUI components of their OS into the actual kernel, and thus running at supervisor levels (and causing as a side effect the kernel to become wholly unstable, typical M$ methodology here), the GUI performance on NT was abysmal, compared to today’s performance. I’m sure the guy, I forget the name, that designed NT (because you _do_ know that M$ couldn’t create something better than their Win32/DOS crap, so they actually bought out the guy who created the VMS OS used on DEC VAX machines) was freaking out!
Auggie: don’t be so certain. AMD time after time has proven to beat Intel in many metrics, although usually in gaming they’re a tad bit behind, and the latest CPUs do give the Intels a good run for their money (AMDs are cheaper too). I personally wish Apple would allow MBP’s to be configured with either an Intel or an AMD cpu, but of course that would require 2 different motherboards and supporting chip groups. Actually, I’ve heard from someone who works at Apple that they did have various prototype hardware for certain models (don’t recall if it was laptops
or not)
Lorenzo: AMD produces x86 compliant/compatible CPUs, so much so, that many times they are better (performance wise or money-wise) than the ones made by the “gorilla” themselves (Intel)
ignore, testing 1 2 3
hello guys
With regards to MacBook Pro running windows vista, I can honestly say im impressed. although i must also say that vista has blatently ripped so many features found in osx. I’m running a dual boot system with osx and vista final release version. When running vista the performance on the MBP is abolutley blistering, im also running office 2007. take any program from the office 2007 suite and from the time you lauch the app it loads in 1second flat, sometimes less. the performance in vista and office combined is simply unbelievable.
My only gripe about vista running on the MBP is the lack of driver support although only 4 things dont load in vista for the mac hardware these are;
(1) the keyboard doesnt light up in the dark
(2) still no right click without external mouseplugged in MBP
(3) power drain is nowhere near as efficent as in osx – in osx i get battery a time of 4hours plus, in vista its about 1hour 45 mins
(4) all the hotkeys dont work in vista ie. the f keys to control hardware like sound screen brightness etc
Other than these minor issues which will more than likely be sorted with updated drivers the mbp is fantastic to run windows vista.
Apple and Microsoft are working together. iTV was developled thanks to Microsoft assistance and Vista UI elements were with Apple input in return. The time of the Mac vs. PC thing is really quite passed.
I don’t think getting a Mac’s about being Elite, though I don’t think it’s about getting the best computer either. My own personal theory, since it’s also applicable to me, is that some computer users just want the best LOOKING laptop on the market and really WANT it to be the best performing one too to justify it. I don’t think anyone can doubt that Apple has some of the best designers. Now that I can run MS based OS’s on it, I can justify it since I don’t have to isolate 95% of the world (who are also my clients).
MS has already said that Vista will most likely be their last OS.
Hope everyone’s ready for dumb terminals!
Weeks ago, I had not thought about the Mac in years…being a long-ago Amiga convert, I respected the Mac but it sure wasn’t an Amiga in 1986. Now, I cannot help but wonder if the MacBook Pro is destined to become what the Amiga COULD have been (if Commodore had only known how to market the “Lorraine”). Lisa was also ahead of her time, but now the time seems ripe for Apple to build substantial market share…it will not command a lead without substantial changes to its sales infrastructure, but I’m leaning toward making it my next “PC”.
I had hoped Apple would announce during the recent event when the next evolution of the MacBook might appear (and/or what it might contain)…the thought of OS X 10.5 and Vista being simultaneously available is quite appealing.
i dont know ne thing cause i am chinese so i will say u r racist
reply to khayman July 1st, 2006 – 6:32 am
” my friend was just last week showing me benchmarks he came out with on macs running msxpos and every time hands down ms had better benchmarks over mac by half. and we’re not talkin’ opening browser apps either we’re talking beefy, burly, memory hungry programs like indesign,photoshop, and illustrator just to name a few. so go take a look at the mac benchmarks running xp and i think you’ll have a major paradigmatic shift like me and realize that the real reason apple is scared of ms is because they’re afraid ms will build a better mousetrap. ”
So you mean you was testing all those adobe apps which currently run through emulation on the mac and you expected them to run faster then native apps on windows ???
Or was your friend’s hardware an old Apple mac (power pc) which run the adobe apps natively in which case you was comparing an old mac to a new or new-ish AMD machine??
And you wonder why it performed worse??? wow you really proved your point !!!!
I am a soundengineer on the national theatreschool of Denmark, and I just bought a MacBook Pro. I had Vista installed and it works, but whith some problems. I found out that the wireless network does not work, the soundcard(eksternal Mbox) does not have a driver for Vista. Two very important features for a soundengineer. I dont mind finding another soundcard, but are having troubles finding an approbiat one. How can I get the wireless network funktion with Vista?
Hans Stokholm
Hans, I have my MacBook Pro doing Triple Boot. I need OS X and WinXP because I support both, and I loaded Vista for testing. I only used Boot Camp to get the Macintosh Drivers for Windows XP 1.1.2. The Sigma Tel audio works for Vista. All three work great, the one issue I have is that the wireless works under OS X and WinXP, but Vista has the adapter loaded as Atheros AR5008X Wireless Network Adapter and says device is working properly. I can’t see an available wireless network.
I use both XP(on a dell) and OSX(on a mac). They both have their good points and bad points. Loving what system you are using is good, bashing others is ignorant(but fun). Its a circular arguement, and even if someone wins, it will be a temporary victory as new software / hardware is constantly being made.
As for that guy testing Vista on a Macbook Pro thats pretty funny whatever side of the fence you are on :)
I just got the macbook pro…. and it’s the best computer I ever had!!!
Apple rules!!!
Some Mac users are absolute embarassingly moronic bafoons. If anything, Apple made their OS compatible with “Windows hardware”… not the other way around. Microsoft has been running on this hardware platform for decades, and each of the hardware vendors that contribute to the Intel based MACs made their fortunes targetting the Windows platform ALONE.
MS Windows can run on a Mac for the same reason it can run on a Dell, Gateway, HP, Alienware, etc. Its all the same hardware!!! Aside from a few irrelevant proprietary gadgets in the new Macs, you can’t find anything in an Apple that isn’t also in a Dell.
Stick to web development and a/v editing. Computer sciences aint your thing.
So the Mac hardware is unreliable expensive crap. I bought my MBP in July 2006, so far 5 batteries, 2 Chargers, logic board. Which is fine if apple like dell could get the parts out in less than 5 weeks. I had to buy a HP notebook so I could work through all the down time. The other fun item is calling apple to get this all repaired! after 90 days they want a $50 dollar deposit each time you call. But windows does run better than OS X and crashes less often on the MBP.
I’m pretty reassured by the fact that an MS employee not only chose to, but was allowed to demo Vista on a MBP. I work for a development firm that only uses PC’s and our software only works on Windows; so I’m stuck with need to have a Windows supporting laptop. I recently bought my wife a white macbook, partly due to the ‘femenine friendly’ asthetics and due to the fact that she’s not a expert and just wants to be able to create documents and access the internet. I’m no dummy and know that OSX will do this perfectly and won’t ask a bunch of dumb questions everytime the OS boots (do you want to update? do you want to hide desktop icons? …); this sort of think freaks out novice users. Since buying the macbook I’ve had a play and love some of the purely design features of the hardware; great power management, beautiful and functional housing and small and smart power adapter (much smaller than any I’ve seen on a PC). I set out looking for a new laptop for myself, one with similar ‘good design’ and figured – hey, may as well get one that can run Vista. The only equally well designed PC’s I could find were Sony Vaios, which are nice (though I’ve never been 100% fond of that ‘Clie’ handheld’ styling) – all those cylindrical forms with square-plastic-aluminium buttons inset in them.. But, they are still what I’d class as the ‘best-of-breed’ design for PC’s. So, I specked up the VAIO I’d need to run VISTA properly, only problem is I can’t afford it; when I found out that I could not only run ViSTA on the arguably better designed MacBook Pro, but that it is several hundred pounds cheaper, with the added incentive of all those great OSX apps like Omni-outliner (of which there is no decent Windows equivalent) – I’ve now made my choice! Another die hard PC user making switch to apple; thanks Microsoft for the final reassurance I needed.
I installed vista business on a macbook pro.
I teach and I need to connect a projector, but it doen’t seem to work (except for when it’s booting)
Any ideas?
I have a macbook pro, and yeah u can run windows on it, question is..why?
point is windows vista is a poor imitation of osx (tiger). I havent used windows since
W/98, and the things i remember are….viruses, spyware, and of course the blue wall of death. Do i want to go back to that again?
Wow, you guys are all friggin’ insane. I came on here to learn more about Boot Camp and I find people mocking others for the type of OS they choose to use. Fine, your OS is better than his. Hardly a reason for such arrogance.
Great plugin may be… Or not?
(1) MS is a SOFTWARE company. Not a HARDWARE company. The more hardware they can run their SOFTWARE on the bigger market share they can capture.
(2) Apple has been known for high quality and well designed HARDWARE and SOFTWARE for many years. Bill Gates himself has said that in his opinion APPLE makes the BEST hardware.
(3) It is not a MAC vs PC argument anymore. A MAC is a QUALITY PC. The difference is in a few things. Customer Support. Software. Hardware Design. Usability, and style. The only thing really that MAC and MS compete on is the OS. Since MAC does NOT license OSX to other hardware manufacturers then MS has no worries. Apple keeps MS from being split for a monoply. MS helps Apple sell more HARDWARE. Jobs and Gates are not arch enemies. They are smart businessmen that actually are working together more so than most believe.
(4) Mac hardware is the only hardware available that has the most OPTIONS on what OS and software you want to run.
(5) For the person who touted the benchmarks for a MS product running programs such as Indesign, Photoshop etc and claims that PC is faster I beg to differ. Compare against a Mac Pro Dual Quad with 8g of Ram ripping a postscript file and you will find a PC is much slower. PDF, Postscript, and Color Management are built into OSX. Photoshop has ALWAYS run faster on a Mac because “ding ding” Adobe was founded by Old Apple employees. Apple has specific code, especially in Photoshop that enable a Mac to utilize the OS, the software, and the hardware better. That is why any real Photoshop power user will only run it on a Mac. The longest wait was for CS3 and the universal binaries to come out so Adobe Products didn;t have to run under Rosetta when Apple made the switch to Intel.
In the end it comes down to the consumer wants and needs. Now if you look at the stock market and at sales reports for the past year you might find that a surprising amount of people are switching to Mac.
Go Figure. :-)
BTW My MBP runs XP and Vista just Fine. But it also runs OSX which is really the big treat.
Yes well, until I can use all my beautiful windows programs without trying to figure out a new OS (we all dont spend hours on the computer) then i might, on a bad day, consider a mac. The fact that mac has been around longer then windows and windows has kicked its ass says something. Plus the only good thing from apple is the ipod series. All u nee dis itunes, whihc of course, runs on windows. Why bother mac, youll never win.
BTW Sony Vaios, the most beautiful, well designed, visually stunning machines ever made, will always blow macs out of the water. THis message coming to you from the guy on a lovely vaio running vista, and no, it doesnt always crash it looks absolutely wonderful on my stunning sony screen. So, you can kiss my big, fat, windows running, sony loving @$$. Have a nice day, and thank you for your time.
Just got a new Gateway laptop, wt about same hardware specs of a MacBook Pro late 2007 model ( core2 duo T7500). After all rebates , about $480+tax. Some guys installed OS X leo(patced) on the same model and it all works fine, just like a Mac Pro except for sound card, web cam, and WIFI (drivers not found yet). So the OSX & logo real cost is $1000-1500 and the hardware $500-700 just like a laptop PC.
IS IT WORTH???.
If gateway or other would use just the same devices- chips- on mobo as MacBook
that cold be a huge HackIntush pain for Apple.
So the new Macs are out? I see the MacBook Air is sporting “a speedy 4200RPM hard drive” and other nicities for a mere $1,800. Such a deal.
My 2.5GHz T9300 w/ 4GB 667 /9-cell battery (six hours) w/17″ screen w/more sleek ports than you can shake a stick at (yes, HDMI as well) was delivered to my door with Belkin bag and Logitech mouse (a REAL mouse, thank you) for about $900. ‘Course I removed the 320GB HDD and replaced it with two (2) 7200RPM drives, a 200GB Seagate Momentus for the OS and Apps and the same model in a 320GB form to store data, the stuff I create. Add $200. And I popped in a Turbo chip and bluetooth 2.1 just for sport. Add $50.
The machine? Yeah, it’s a Dell. Studio 1735, a pretty sleek piece of hardware thank you very much. Yeah, backlit keyboard and stuff like that, it’s all here. And I could buy all this and fly to London for the weekend to watch some shows and return to an evening on the town and have a chunk of change left in my pocket, merely by NOT buying a Mac.
Next question? I mean, this is a no brainer. FYI, the days of ANYTHING running faster on a Mac are over. It’s official.