Teacher: If you reject that, you belong in hell

Total bull. No need to do that, and just shows the biblebashing state of the US Education system. Intelligent Design etc, pfsh.

broke the “church-state” boundary? hmm…funny because that does not exist, or at least it shouldn’t exist. nowhere in the Constitution does it mention that, nor did it first appear in any federal document. It first appeared in a personal letter that was sent from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association. So tell me… is the “wall of separation” a legit reason in court?

-matt

Matt is an idiot

Why yes I am. I know my reasons, but what are yours? Back up your reasoning and present a valid, intelligent argument to counter mine. Then I may agree or disagree, just like a civilized conversation. Didn’t you learn that?

-matt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States

Matt is absolutely correct, there is not anything in the constitution or amendments that supports the concept of “separation” as it is enforced today.

As I’m not religious I didn’t really like being taught religion as a subject at school. It probely isn;t the same here as in america though as we learn out differnt religions, possibly to try and stop us being rasits :S

Oh I’m from the UK btw

We should get rid of “public schools” altogether. They are a failure at educating our kids. Then parents could chose schools for their kids that give them the kind of education they want their kids to have. If a parent wants religion taugh to their kids, they’d chose school A, if not, school B, if something else, school C. Then we could end the debate and stop wasting our money on yet another failed government program.

“The ‘establishment of religion’ clause of the First Amendment means at least this: …Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion.”- Hugo Black from http://www.answers.com/topic/everson-v-board-of-education.

and the last time i checked, a public school was part of the government, so ill let you decide for yourself.

Umm they have the choice right now Daniel.

That statement rivals the ignorance of Matt H.’s

Public school funded by the tax dollars of people given to the government is part of the government?

noooo

Hey biga, the Establishment Clause means nothing of the sort. It means what it says: “CONGRESS shall make no LAW…”. The Constitution means what it says, it doesn’t take an analyst to figure that out. The Supreme Court mucked that up years ago and makes things mean other things.

-matt

Matt:
THe Establishment Clause clearly states that the government shall not endorse any one particular relgioin. The fact that PUBLIC schools are funded by THE GOVERNMENT means that this is in fact un-constitutional.
Daniel:
As a product of Public School Education for most of my life, I can attest to it. THe statement you made is as bad, or worse even then Daniel’s. An educated populace can only be achieved through government funded schools. Not everyone is willing to/ are able to pay for school for 12 years of their child’s life. Public education is by NO means a “failed government project” What on Earth gave you that idea?

I’ve go to church every sunday (not a christian, just gets me free rent)

And that guy sounds more preachy then most preachers there…ugh.

In general though the school system sucks. It does in 13 years what I would think takes 4 at most. And at the same time manages to fuck up a lot of kids. Suicide, anxiety, lack of self-confidence. These are personal problems but the school systems just push on small cracks until they go bigger and bigger in unstable youth. It’s a bunch of bs.

We educate too earlier, think people are helpless and forget that some are just stupid. Oh and they teach a bunch of useless bs. I’d like to see things that apply to our daily lives taught…like local laws…how our government works, these things were barely skimmed when I was in school.

And economics, economics class seemed to avoid talking about anything modern…gah….what a waste of time.

I could rant forever…..also after elementary they cater to one small type of students (auditory) and there’s a very very large amount of students that are not auditory….blah blah

Schools dont turn kids into gangsters though. Alot of the problems you speak of have to be shared with parenting. but it correlates to income of course as well, seeing as a lower income house is likely to have 1 parent who isnt there, and is likely a single parent for mulitple reasons including being un educated on relationships themselves phsyocologically and the domino effect just goes on and on.

okay, and while we’re on the whole “religion” topic. The whole Jesus died for your sins thing really gets on my nerves.
1. he didn’t die for my sins he died because HIS belief was different than that of the people in power
2. And about the whole dieing thing, it’s not like he ACTUALLY had a choice. Do you HONESTLY think that the government at the time would have let him go if he had simply said “Actually, I don’t believe what i’ve been preaching all my life”
2b. one of my favorite comedians, David Cross, puts it very well, saying that Jesus could have either stayed down on Earth where he was hated by so many people, or he could be a martyr, and (he believed) go up to heaven, to stand at his fathers side in judgement of all of man for all of eternity. YEAH BIG DECISION
So yeah, this teacher thrusting his views on a history class is ridiculous, and offensive. If I had a kid, and he was going to that school, I’d want that teacher’s job. This is a public school, to educate students on how to survive i nthe real world, not some theology class trying to brainwash young people to join the Catholic Corporation machine.

Matt, I think the point that is to be made and has been touched on lightly here is that if Christian history is the basis of the educational background then we fail in supporting the rights of the non Christians within the class room. I feel that it is not as our liberal leftists proclaim irresponsible to do so, however, I feel it is irresponsible and dangerous, and a large part of the reason that our nation is so maligned by Muslim nations as we are only educated in a attempted secular manor. Religion should be taught within the classroom, but we can’t assume that by Religion we mean Christianity. Islam, Judaism, as well as Buddhism and such should be taught as well to increase our understanding of different cultures and their core values. The problem with this is then we have to decide which religions do we consider appropriate for our classrooms. Do we wish to teach druidism? Or the ever-feared Satanism? If we can’t teach them all then should we really teach any? As far as choosing your school based on it’s private decision on what religion to preach, not teach, then as time passes, this will bring greater divisions in our own nation as we will begin to segregate based on our preferred accepted religious beliefs. I remember there was a group that wanted to make sure everyone wanted to make sure that only their beliefs and history was to be dominant. Whoops here I go, I just invoked the “N” word, Nazism. Then again, all that does is start a flame war, and no one wants that.

There is no right answer; all we have is time to work it all out before we either get it right or keep on trying.

@ Matt

I don’t believe in your God… simple as that, and I find it offensive that you look down on me for my views and your friends tell me I’m going to spend eternity suffering because of our difference in opinion.

I lived in eastern Kentucky for nearly 4 years and walked out of many a class rooms due to this same preaching of opinion based information. Children are easily influenced and just because you don’t believe in what I believe in doesn’t mean you should push your beliefs on my children (which do not yet exist) pedaling fear and “i’m right, you’re wrong” attitudes.

to be put simple, I don’t try to convince you or your friends and family that your God doesn’t exist, so please for Gods sake (which ever one you choose, yours or mine) stop trying ton convince me he does.

If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong, but if I am then you don’t have to worry about that do you because once the big guy upstairs Nix’s me our paths won’t be crossing anyway :)

Good Day to you Sir;
Chad

I am an Atheist. My mother is an Atheist. I was born and raised an Atheist. It’s not like it was pushed on me. I just don’t believe in God. I believe people should believe what they want to believe, but if you live in this country, which was founded on Christian principles, you need to learn about and tolerate Christianity. The same goes for Christians: they need to tolerate other religions more than they do now. The only reason I am defending Christianity here is because I believe this country is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, and therefore needs to stay Christian. We strayed away from Christianity, and look at the nation now.

And Emory, where does it say the government should not endorse a religion? From what I can read, it says (once again) that Congress (a branch of government yes, but this part is run by the people) shall make no law respecting the establishment of a certain religion of the government. The gov’t can’t officially say “We endorse Christianity.”

-matt

I know what will end all of this fighting over religion in the world. I have the solution that will not only end all religious battles, but make us all look like civilized geniuses while doing it… WE CAN ALL ARGUE ON A MESSAGE BOARD!

Hoorah for modern technology!

you can’t preach equality and mutual respect while at the same time preaching ignorance and intolerance …

Damn, now I feel bad about having the name Matt.

First off, I believe that this sort of things happens quite commonly with in area of the country to are primarily of a certain religion. It usually only gets on the news when it happens where someone actually says something about it.

Second, eliminating public schools would force almost every child into a religious school. All those children who wish to learn about science and evolution wouldn’t ever have a chance. The idea that parents would put their children into the school that is best for them is noble, at best. Any largely religious parent, if give the money and option, would put their children into parochial schools.

This isn’t in the topic and it is a bit facetious, but the idea of teaching Bible for its literary merit is moronic. My college has such a course and I laugh every time that I pass it by. Not only that, but do you know how many plot holes it has? I mean, it is possible that Noah made a huge boat and put a bunch of animals on it, but could he have gotten every single animal on there. Also, a lot of those animals would fight. If Shakespeare write Bible, I think it would have turned out as a huge improvement.

Oh, and I only go to my family’s local church for the Christmas Eve mass. Why? I like to sing the music. Who doesn’t love to sing “Silent Night?”

I respect everyone’s opinion here, and I think it is great that we all feel so strongly about them. But not many things piss me off more than when people argue and someone gets hostile and insults someone. Grow up. Grow up Matthew Rodgers, grow up Cynic821. Yes you may be able to present a valid argument, but that becomes null and void to me once you throw an insult. The good, healthy argument then ignites into a piss fest and everyone gets hostile. Once you insult, you lose all credibility.

Matthew Rodgers: I would have liked what you read if you hadn’t started your lame comment.

Cynic821: You lost all credibility from the get-go with your lame-ass comment that did absolutely no good for anything.

-matt

I was just stating a person opinion, which I found relatively odd. Ir would probably have been a bit more timely had it been around when they “discovered” Noah’s Ark.

After reading it over again, I think you’re right. It isn’t as funny as I thought it was. I really ought to proofread more from now on.

Did I insult you? I don’t remember doing that. But my point remains, be it misplaced and slightly offensive. Have you ever tried to put a mouse and an owl in the same place? Me neither, but it wouldn’t be pretty.

okay Matt H, I read Mathew Rodgers’ comment, and I didn’t see anything wrong with it. When did he insult you? just curious

why can’t people just realize no one is right…..

Right about what? I thought this was a discussion. (Not condescending in anyway.)

Thank you all for opening my eyes. I will totaly change whatever religion it is that I am a part of, all thanks to you. For I was once blind, but now I see. Thank goodness you guys all took hours of your lives writing up perfectly worded responces to eachother, it totaly changed not only my life, but the world around me. Now lets all get some eggnog and celibrate the new found peace that I am sure the whole world will now feel thanks to you guys.

/sarcasm :D

Hours? Shesh.

im currently in school studying to be a youth pastor, and ive been a Christian for most of my life. having said that, i dont condone anything that teacher said. as far as the religious aspect goes, no one’s will ever “convert” simply because someone would said they would go to hell. and this elitism doesnt impress anyone, the heart of what Christianity is is about lifestyle, not debate.

politically, i think a teacher should have the right to make their religious views known, but imposing them is out of the question. there seems to be this fear that any public mention of religious views is someone’s pathetic attempt to convert everyone when thats not necessarily the case. of course than we have guys like this who dont know where to draw the line, which is why i doubt it could ever be put into practice.

i didn’t mean right in this discussion… I meant right in general… when it boils down to it there is no right, and no wrong in what we are discussing

“when it boils down to it there is no right, and no wrong in what we are discussing”

Maybe you should ask God what the answer is. He has an opinion, and there is an absolute answer.

I wonder if that was sarcasm or not. It’s rather hard to tell if on the internet.

If not, then… well, I don’t really know what to say without offending anyone.

If so… well, yeah. Not much to say either.

yea….. my exact point was just illustrated above :)

Hmm. Damn, I can’t tell if that was about me and if it was in jest. Oh bother.